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英雄无敌7#技能盘设计指导思想

EvilP 更新于 2015-04-28 11:38

来源:http://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skillwheel-the-design-philosophy,以下由HeavenK摘录。

  • 一个能选所有技能的英雄就别想了,这又不是RPG,我们可不想见到野蛮人大法师这种诡异的英雄;
  • 随机技能系统和h5差不多,每次升级会有两个主技能和两个从技能共四个位置供选,当选定了五系的技能之后(数量还未最终定下),之后出的技能都会限定在这五个系里;
  • 要修中级高级技能,需要先修上一个级别的技能,并至少在上一个级别中选取至少一个能力;
  • 终极技能,好吧,其实我们把它称为宗师技能。这个技能会比较强,但是又不至于一个技能定胜负。当然,请记住,技能的具体效果会按照平衡性而调整;
  • 英雄职业的技能轮是固定的,设计如此,所以会黑魔法的骑士什么的别想了;
  • 主修技能是可以修到大师级的,而且六个主修技能中有三个可以修到宗师级,其中必然包括种族技能。辅修技能只能修到专家级;
  • 英雄的初始技能取决于英雄职业和特长;
  • 和h5与h6的比较,blabla没什么太多意思,基本就是前两代设计的各有缺陷不够完美,所以我们要改啦什么的;
  • 技能点数量总是不够,给多少你们都会抱怨的啦,所以无所谓啦;
  • 技能名字会调整的啦,像是某气系大师1.2.3系列,所以别抱怨啦;
sylvia63222016 回复于 2015-05-08 15:34:
深绿之弓 发表于 2015-5-4 19:48

 看上去不错,我个人比较喜欢H5那样的技能轮

 H5的技能系统太乱了,有太多垃圾技能(机械系的地震,破坏系的魔力爆发,光明系的精炼魔力等), 太“专”的技能(光明黑暗下的反光明反黑暗,召唤下的元素平衡和驱逐,野蛮人反魔法等)以及千篇一律的技能(破坏下的树浆魔法,亡灵特有的骸骨防护,防御下的抗魔等,全都是减魔法伤害的),而且很多技能的学习条件太苛刻,全靠运气。7代统一为每系3+2+1共6种就好多了。
恶魔之父 回复于 2015-05-08 14:07:
安戴德耐特 发表于 2015-5-4 12:18

 是的,学什么技能变什么职业的养成感更强。
 职业用种族技能属性成长限定区分一下就行了,框框加太多了没 ...

 所以4代的职业设计就不错,各种双技能的进阶职业,除去不得不修战斗保证英雄生存的问题,大都很不错。
sunu4 回复于 2015-05-08 12:01:
我丢!!!
深绿之弓 回复于 2015-05-04 19:48:
看上去不错,我个人比较喜欢H5那样的技能轮
安戴德耐特 回复于 2015-05-04 12:18:
624003083 发表于 2015-5-4 09:59

 h5学了黑魔法的骑士特色技能就叫堕落骑士。。因为h5亡灵英雄就一个职业亡灵法师。h7亡灵已经有3种骑士类 ...

 是的,学什么技能变什么职业的养成感更强。
 职业用种族技能属性成长限定区分一下就行了,框框加太多了没有必要。随机技能就能解决同质化问题。而且作为主要拿它当单机玩的玩家来说同质化不是因为惰性就是因为技能明显不平衡,不得不照一个方向培养。
邪翼 回复于 2015-05-04 10:19:
624003083 发表于 2015-5-4 10:03

 英雄无敌系列,一般资料片都提供洗点的。。。其实暗黑3技能系统也就是强行平衡的产物,从游戏世界的角度 ...

 除了H5,你洗来看看。。。
624003083 回复于 2015-05-04 10:03:
邪翼 发表于 2015-4-29 14:09

 我对这种东西就讨厌了。。最特么讨厌选技能了。。。。
 我其实很喜欢暗黑3的技能模式,想怎么切怎么切。 ...

 英雄无敌系列,一般资料片都提供洗点的。。。其实暗黑3技能系统也就是强行平衡的产物,从游戏世界的角度无法解释为什么转眼有些技能就不会了,打完分分钟又可以会了。瞄的这又不是dnd巫师的法术位。。。。
624003083 回复于 2015-05-04 09:59:
安戴德耐特 发表于 2015-4-28 15:00

 H5里会黑魔法的骑士还能有自己的特色能力,到这直接不让学了。自由度真是一代不如一代。

 h5学了黑魔法的骑士特色技能就叫堕落骑士。。因为h5亡灵英雄就一个职业亡灵法师。h7亡灵已经有3种骑士类职业了。这一代的是先框定职业在限制技能,个人倒是喜欢h4那种学会了什么技能反算职业加成。
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-29 14:47:
恶魔之父 发表于 2015-4-29 14:35

 之前没写完整,POE技能图的特色是条条大路通罗马。
 一个野蛮人角色,利用自己门口强力的生存技能线路达 ...

 一样不喜欢。。。。。
恶魔之父 回复于 2015-04-29 14:35:
邪翼 发表于 2015-4-29 14:09

 我对这种东西就讨厌了。。最特么讨厌选技能了。。。。
 我其实很喜欢暗黑3的技能模式,想怎么切怎么切。 ...

 之前没写完整,POE技能图的特色是条条大路通罗马。
 一个野蛮人角色,利用自己门口强力的生存技能线路达到公共技能,再学出法师下面的魔法被动技能。
 拿HOMM打个比方,在火魔法和寻路的结合部有一个很好的技能,我一个不能学火系魔法的沼泽法师,出门只有水魔法,但是可以通过学寻路和寻路下的子技能链也拿到那个技能,而不是非要把火魔法和寻路主技能都学到多少级才能拿。
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-29 14:09:
恶魔之父 发表于 2015-4-29 13:51

 其实我比较喜欢POE那样的技能图,1000多个节点的那种。

 我对这种东西就讨厌了。。最特么讨厌选技能了。。。。
 我其实很喜欢暗黑3的技能模式,想怎么切怎么切。。。没有学错一说。。。
恶魔之父 回复于 2015-04-29 13:51:
邪翼 发表于 2015-4-28 18:20

 那你见过几个游戏能达成这点的、、
 而且不能学习所有公共系技能的游戏多的去了吧。。
 
 

 其实我比较喜欢POE那样的技能图,1000多个节点的那种。
iceliu 回复于 2015-04-28 22:22:
我实际上只是想吐槽图标。。。能换换吗?没钱?能重用H5的吗?
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-28 18:20:
恶魔之父 发表于 2015-4-28 15:42

 同质化说明技能强度不平衡,技能深度不足,浅层技能收益过高,主技能组合的边缘特长设计不足,英雄个人 ...

 
 那你见过几个游戏能达成这点的、、
 而且不能学习所有公共系技能的游戏多的去了吧。。
 
 其实我的意思是怎么的都能玩。。。。别想那么多。。
wudevils 回复于 2015-04-28 15:43:
怎么还有自动隐藏的帖子
恶魔之父 回复于 2015-04-28 15:42:

 
邪翼 发表于 2015-4-28 15:07

 哦。。那同质化问题怎么解决?

 
 同质化说明技能强度不平衡,技能深度不足,浅层技能收益过高,主技能组合的边缘特长设计不足,英雄个人特长不够影响技能选择 等等。
 
 不如几个高度专一型的英雄一起带一队丫。
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-28 15:07:
安戴德耐特 发表于 2015-4-28 15:00

 H5里会黑魔法的骑士还能有自己的特色能力,到这直接不让学了。自由度真是一代不如一代。

 哦。。那同质化问题怎么解决?
安戴德耐特 回复于 2015-04-28 15:00:
H5里会黑魔法的骑士还能有自己的特色能力,到这直接不让学了。自由度真是一代不如一代。
☆SILENT★ 回复于 2015-04-28 14:50:
邪翼 发表于 2015-4-28 12:50

 两种都存在,估计是开局时选。

 应该是开始游戏前(比如说建房间时)就设定好的吧,以保证每个玩家都一样,要不同一个游戏里有的玩家是随机系统,有的玩家是加天赋点岂不是很不公平?
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-28 12:50:
冰雷魔导师 发表于 2015-4-28 12:12

 强行沙发。。
 所以说综合上次的信息,技能到底是H3/H5式的随机学习,还是H6式的自我选择加点式?

 两种都存在,估计是开局时选。
冰雷魔导师 回复于 2015-04-28 12:12:
强行沙发。。
 所以说综合上次的信息,技能到底是H3/H5式的随机学习,还是H6式的自我选择加点式?
nocholson 回复于 2015-04-28 12:12:
翻译好逗。。。
邪翼 回复于 2015-04-28 11:54:
The concept:
 The first big idea with this skillwheel is to provide players the possibility to plan the development of his heroes on the long term, while offering ways to specialize in certain areas of the gameplay. This is why the primary system does not involve randomness, since it would force the player to deal with random constraints in the balancing of his hero.
 
 The other main idea is to allow the player to grasp the possibilities of a hero by looking at a single screen. Major and Minor skills are visible at a glance to measure the strengths of the hero class.
 
 We have a feeling that some people truly believe that more complexity and constraints in a system makes it better, however, we don’t share this belief.
 
 Now to answer a few questions from you:
 1. On the system being too restrictive to let you build a hero from a pool of possible skills:
 
 First of all, our reference games (HIII, HV) never provided such freedom. This is not a RPG, hero classes are provided with each their selection of skills, which define what a class is. We don’t want freeform heroes and spellcasting barbarians.
 
 
 2. On randomness within the skillwheel system:
 
 It’s very simple and similar to Heroes V. Each time a level is acquired, the player is proposed to choose an upgrade between two skill ranks and two abilities, within the available ones at this moment. Like in HV, once 5 (to be confirmed) skills are used, the remaining choices will always be part of those 5 skills, to ensure that no skill is left with too few points to be useful. Players have the freedom to make a choice within a range of random choices. For those who doubt that this will make a difference in the game experience, we can assure it definitely does.
 
 
 3. On prerequisites:
 
 To acquire a skill rank (except for Novice), you need to have unlocked the previous one and at least one ability of the previous one. This forbids to reach the most powerful ability of a skill without investing anything in lower ranks. It’s a system like any other. We discussed forcing to unlock ALL abilities of a skill rank to reach the next one and discarded it, since you would have needed too many points to reach top rank. We also discussed linking abilities together like in HV but decided this was a too strong restriction that led to strongly similar ability setups to reach certain abilities, and therefore restricted the player’s freedom too much.
 
 
 4. On so-called ultimates:
 
 We call them grandmaster abilities, because they’re not ultimates. Please remember that all numbers are subject to balancing. Grandmaster abilities are supposed to be desirable and great but shouldn’t be game-winners. Of course, it’s logical that players would set themselves as an objective to unlock these, as they are the most powerful abilities, but this should not make all other decision secondary. So, the only restriction is to reach them using the regular rules, which means 6 to 8 levels investing only on that skill, depending on the starting rank of the hero.
 
 
 5. On hero classes and skills:
 
 Yes, a hero class is defined by a fixed skillwheel. It’s a set of possible skills, which is a logical design. A Knight can always have offense, he can never have dark magic, that’s what defines a knight in Ashan. Each faction has 6 classes, half of them magic heroes, the other half might heroes. In all non-story driven game mode, you can choose your faction and your class, according to the skills you want to play with.
 
 
 6. On Major and Minor skills:
 
 It’s very simple. Major means you have access to Master rank. Minor means you are limited to Expert rank. Among Major skills, only 3 have a Grandmaster ability. For all hero classes, the faction skill (necromancy for Necropolis) is a Major skill with Grandmaster ability. There are no other faction specific perk.
 
 
 7. On starting skills:
 
 Yes, each hero has a starting skill rank (no ability), and possibly another if that is his specialization provides.
 
 
 8. On the comparison with Heroes V:
 
 First of all let’s remember that in Heroes V, originally (before modding), there was no skillwheel and players had to post-rationalize everything to get a clue of how it was working, otherwise you blindly chose skills and abilities according to the moment’s judgment. Also, you could unlock skills by visiting buildings, which could occasionally ruin your plans. Save/Load strategies to avoid that are not unheard of. We believe that means that the design is flawed.
 
 On the same topic, providing the possibility to reset the whole hero by paying gold in a special building is also a dirty fix to a flawed system. Cross skill restriction and cross ability restrictions are just more constraints to the player’s control over his hero’s development, it’s arguably a design quality per se. Some advocate that they like more constraints and difficulty, less control, that’s a purely subjective opinion and we know there is no consensus here, we prefer to give players control over their hero’s development.
 
 
 9. On the comparison with Heroes VI:
 
 It’s definitely not the same. Yes, the magic schools are the same. Yes, it’s a player-controlled system. Heroes VI had ability tiers, limited by level, which allowed to stack points to unlock multiple high-tier abilities without spending in low tier. Heroes VI have ability “lines” within the same skills, some being constrainted by linear unlock, some not, some tier were not populated, so it was much less systemic than Heroes VII.
 
 
 10. On the number of skills and abilities:
 
 This is an endless debate. Every player can come up with their own perfect number, we don’t believe there is a perfect answer to please anyone. Each game has different number of skills and abilities and we don’t believe that affect quality directly.
 
 
 11. On the naming of some abilities:
 
 Some names in the skillwheel still are work in progress and will be modified before the release of the game. For instance, Air Magic abilities such as Master of Air I, II & will be renamed to ensure they will not be confused with linked or pre-requisite.


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